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070 - SPECIAL: Author Interview - Jason Cutter


Here's the transcript for today's interview...

Nicole (00:08):

Okay today, we have a special author interview. I worked with Jason recently on his book project Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transforming From Order-Taker to Quota Breaker. And I'm happy to have him here today to share with you what the book is all about. What inspired Jason to write such a book, to tell us about the process of writing it, what inspired him and how he plans to use his book going forward. And hopefully he'll give us some tidbits about how he goes about selling with authentic persuasion. So the one thing I love about doing these interviews is really getting to know my clients and of course, sharing them with you because I love them all. I am my client's biggest fan. So let me read you Jason's bio. So Jason cutter has a degree in Marine biology from the university of California, Santa Cruz, and an MBA from Southern New Hampshire university. His life has been focused on selling and helping others to sell. He has led sales teams at multiple companies across multiple offices and in multiple countries, including working with offshore call centers. His niche is inside sales teams driven by inbound performance marketing. Today. Jason is the host of the sales experience podcast, and he leaves his own consulting firm cutter consulting group. Okay, Jason, I'm excited to have you here today on the let's get your book published podcast. Welcome.

Jason (01:46):

Thank you, Nicole. Appreciate it. I'm excited to, to be here as well, to chat about this, the book, my journey on writing it and getting your help. So it should be fun.

Nicole (01:57):

Well, I have to admit, I went over to your podcast and I first I have to say congratulations, almost three, a hundred episodes, so, wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I listened to the getting ghosted podcasts and I have to say, I love how you compared selling to dating and the whole don't chase and the court ship. And and I was kind of laughing. So I was going, well, maybe I need to be better at dating before I'm better at sales.

Jason (02:28):

Well, and it's, it's interesting that you bring that up because you know, kind of going into what I focused on from a selling perspective and kind of my framework is that it is the same. I mean, when you're selling and there's some kind of consultative decision that needs to be made, like, is this a good fit? Should I buy this from you? Then it is like a relationship. And the more you treat it like a relationship and how you would want the courtship and the dating process to go, then it's going, it's going to be more effective. And it marries that it matches that very well. And it's super funny because there's been many times in my career where somebody is so bad at selling because of the way they approach it. I know that, I know that they're probably also single just because they probably can't sell it.

Nicole (03:14):

Oh gosh, that's funny. So yeah, I need to take a few lessons on either sales or dating. I'm not sure which direction, but

Jason (03:21):

Oh no, I didn't get, and like most people probably too hard on yourself. You know, and I'm sure I'm sure you're great. Yeah.

Nicole (03:31):

Okay. So tell us what is the book about and why did you write it?

Jason (03:38):

So the book is about helping people who probably fell into sales accidentally, right? Or didn't plan on being in sales and ended up in a sales role, or they are in sales and they've kind of plateaued, or they struggled with success. And really the challenge is, is that they want to find a way to sell more effectively without crossing that line that everybody or most everybody's afraid of, which is the manipulation and the coercion and the having to trick people or, or push people into buying and what happens. And this is the term I use in the book, which is order taker is a lot of people because they go so far away from the other end, where they don't want to be that bad sales person that they've maybe experienced in their own life as a customer, that they go to the other extreme, which is just hoping somebody decides to buy.

Jason (04:29):

And I feel like there is a fantastic and highly successful place in the middle where you're being you, you're being authentic. And then you're using persuasion to help somebody achieve their goals and what they want. Hopefully through whatever you're selling, if it's a good fit. Why I wrote this book is because for me, I didn't, I have never had any sales training. I have never worked for a company where I got training and they taught me how to sell. Like it's all been, self-taught the rough hard knocks of life, mistakes, losing deals, losing money. I'm having to, you know, buy my own books, put myself through my own courses and seminars and, and, and just learning as I went along. And I know how painful that is and obviously want to help people with what I learned. And then fundamentally too. I mean, like you said, my bachelor's degrees in Marine biology. I, I grew up as a shy, awkward, only child, late bloomer to two analytical parents. That was a, it was an anti sales household, if you will. And I didn't even want to deal with people. That's why I got a degree in Marine biology and tech sharks for years, and then some life happened and I ended up in a sales role and, you know, I ran away from it several times and you know, I really understand what it's like to not be that natural born salesperson, but still want to be effective.

Nicole (05:48):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know I've, I've played roles in sales in my life. And actually I did a podcast a while back about, I started one of my, it was a, I don't know if you remember Cutco cutlery, but yeah. And they they teach you some really, really awesome things when it really comes down to it. But I, I, one of the greatest lessons I learned was to ask for the sale and you don't think about that, you know, when you're young and you're like, Oh gosh, I'm so nervous. And, but but yeah, that's, that's kind of big. Yeah. Okay. So all things COVID, how do you go about, I mean, can you give us any advice? Can you tell us how somebody would go about selling something when we are in the middle of a pandemic? I mean, are there tricks or things that you've learned or if someone's, you know, now out of a job starting a new business, I mean, how do you go about selling when there's such a a saturated and noisy environment everybody's at home and online? Is it harder? Is it easier? Do you have any advice?

Jason (06:52):

I think the most interesting part of this and the advice is, is the same with, or without COVID fascinatingly enough. When this all started happening, the biggest thing online, I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn and everyone's like, Hey, you know, don't sell just empathy, relationship building, you know, think longterm. And I'm reading all these posts and listening to all these, I'm going to air quote gurus out there. And I'm just like, wait, that's what you've always should be doing. Right? You should always be focusing on relationships and helping people and looking longterm and using empathy. That's always like, in my opinion, that's always the process and the way to be successful in selling especially when you make it about the other person and their success and not your own. Like you're having conversations with people, not because you need the deal or you have your handout, but because you want to help them get to a better situation.

Jason (07:45):

Right? So I think that applies no matter what, obviously it's a little more intense. And during this time you might spend more time in that rapport, empathy, relationship building kind of phase. But then what happens is, you know, it's still going to move forward. And I think what's also true, whether it's COVID or not COVID pandemic economic crisis, whatever it might be is that if you have something of value, if you sell something that somebody else needs or wants, that will improve their business, their life, whatever that is, and it's clear and you can help them. To me, it's always the best time to sell. Right? Let's take this for example. I mean, we were going through this process with your help for me, and there's an economy and there's, there's a, a pandemic, there's like all kinds of different factors going on, but the value was there.

Jason (08:33):

I knew what I wanted. You could help me. And it didn't matter right there. Wasn't a, Hey, maybe this might not be a good time for you. It was about the value was there. And I knew it and you helped me see that. And then we just kept going. Right. And so I think a lot of times when I see people who are struggling right now to make sales or to move sales conversations forward, it's either they believe they actually provide value that somebody else would want to pay for, or what they're selling is actually not valuable enough. And it's something they got to think about as well.

Nicole (09:06):

Yes. Awesome. Well, I know I come from a pretty intensive background in the marketing world and I've been, you know, looking at things like pain points and, you know, what are your pain points? Can I address those? How do I market and target to those things to, you know, find a solution. And I've been looking at, you know, what are some of the top categories that people are, are looking for online, like content marketing and strategy and things like that are super hot right now. And so I've been kind of looking at things a little bit differently. I'm like, you know, in a way, this is really great. Cause if you've got a captive audience and but you also have a lot of people that know they have a captive audience and but yeah, it's been fun for me. And but anyways okay. So I want to talk about the book, the process of pulling it together. And one of the things, you know, talking about content management and content strategy, everybody always like loves to hear whatever it takes like to get from, from concept or idea into actually creating the book. Like, what did that look like for you? How did you come up with the content and how did you flow it into a book?

Jason (10:22):

So the content was there. So this book that I wrote is not a heavy researched book. Like sometimes people write books where there's a lot of research, there's a lot of background information. It was literally started the, especially the first version was a data dump, just everything in my head that I knew about sales and the toughest part was organizing it. So once I organized it into the framework of what I wanted to do and what I knew, like outlining the chapters and saying, okay, so here's, here's the chapters. And then filling in the subsections of all those chapters and then literally just sitting down and writing and setting a goal. And I'm a little crazy. Some people might think kind of like my podcast, which is five days a week with the book I was working more than full time. And I basically set a goal of writing three chapters a week.

Jason (11:14):

I wrote the book in six weeks cause I got ahead of schedule. I, you know, I would basically wake up early, go to the gym for a little bit, just to kind of wake up, then go to Starbucks and write for two hours and then go to work and work for a bunch and then repeat that and do some stuff on the weekends. So I just, I literally plowed through it. And what helped was kind of having that goal and having the framework and knowing when I sat down, like here's the point of the chapter, here's what I'm going to write about. Here's what I'm filling in. And when I got to the mode where it was just filling the gaps and fill in the sections, that was really easy when I started this a long time ago and I looked the daunting process of writing a book and I was like, Oh, I gotta write this thing. And I don't know what I'm gonna write about. That was overwhelming. And when I just broke it down into like, here's my chapter for today, write about empathy. Okay. Done. Here's my subsections. Then it just flows.

Nicole (12:09):

Yes. Yes. And so how how are you planning? I know you're, you, you've probably just gotten the books. You've gone through the printing process. We aren't doing book release parties these days. So how are you going about launching the book during all things COVID,

Jason (12:29):

You know, for me, what I did was I had a lot of fantastic people who were, most of them were actually guests on my podcast, which this was not my intention, so it wasn't strategic. But when I was working on the book and I wanted people to read it and give me their feedback and possibly write, you know, some kind of praise quote or testimony or something for it, you know, people who are in sales and leadership and coaching and development and just people I appreciated and respected. So I sent it out to a whole bunch of people. I ended up getting 24 responses back of people who wrote something for the book. And then what happened was they were, you know, they're all big fans of mine and supporters. And then what I did was I actually got shirts made, cause one of my clients actually does product and brand merchandising.

Jason (13:16):

So they got shirts made that say authentic persuader. So then I sent a book and a shirt to everybody who had wrote something for the book and supported it. And then, you know, not that they're my necessarily target audience, but then, you know, just cause I appreciate them. And then what they're doing now is, you know, without even asking, they're posting that online, they're posting pictures of them with the book and their shirt and, you know, it's just kind of cool and it's, you know, it's getting their followers engaged. And so it's a lot of, it's a lot of that and it's a lot of me also getting on lots of podcasts.

Nicole (13:49):

Yes. Yes. So when you wrote the book, did you have a plan for how you were going to use the book? Was that you know, was there any premeditated premeditated thinking in that, like, I'm going to write this and it's going to be utilized for something, or did you just say, I just have a lot of information. I want to write it and I need to make a book happen. You know, how did, how did that look for you?

Jason (14:16):

Well, when I first started this journey in 2018 keeping in mind, I started writing a book in 2009 and all of those doubts and limiting beliefs jumped in my head and overwhelmed me because I was like, who am I to write a book? Why would anybody want to read this book? And, you know, I had some less than supportive influences in my life. And I was just like, okay, that, that died. And then in 2018 I was like, I just gotta write this. And I was actually starting and writing three books at the same time. Like I was like, okay, I'm going to write an autobiography. I want to write one about sales. I want to write one about this. And then I got some advice that no, just write one focus on one and why do you want to do it?

Jason (14:56):

And that's where I had this message inside of me, but then it became more focused on having something that I could share. Cause part of it was just literally getting it out of my head as just this message I wanted to share same thing with my podcast when I started, it was just something I just had to do from deep inside. And I didn't care if anyone listened to it. I didn't care if anyone, you know, was engaged with it, with the book, same thing, that's how it started. But then it became about a purpose full project where it would leverage or create this credibility for me as a author speaker, consultant, coach. So I have my consulting company and it would help open doors and be something that would validate what I know to then, you know, increase client opportunities, speaking engagements. I mean, I'd love to do TEDx style talks and presentations and keynotes. And so this is kind of the next step in that evolution.

Nicole (15:53):

Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I know when I personally wrote my first three books, I just had a lot to say and I was like, it's just got to go into a book. I had notes everywhere. And then by the time I got to my fourth book, I said, you know, I want to, I want this to be a little bit more strategic. And I think, you know, it was like, cause it's actually a book written to, you know, go into an online training program. So each chapter is a module in the program and I, and I wrote it that way, but I think a lot of new authors approach it and they're just like, I just have a lot to say and you know, and then when you find out the process is you learn the process and you go, Oh, well that was a lot of work, but it wasn't really that hard. So I want to do another one or are you at that place yet? Are you ready to do your next one?

Jason (16:41):

Yeah. Well, and on the note of the third and fourth, it's funny because my podcast is the same way. My I'm about to stop season three and then start season four. And I feel like the first three seasons were just because I had lots to say, and there was lots of cool people I want to talk to. And then season four is a little more, let's be strategic and let's have different, different conversations. So it's, it's, it's funny that timeline. And yeah, I mean, for me book, this book just came out printed in hand not too long ago and I already knew what book number two was going to be and I've already, I thought I knew and that one's now jumped to number three and I've started on the new book number two, and I know what number three is going to be. And I know what number four is going to be. And I'm truly excited. Most people think I'm crazy because I just wrote this and they saw how hard it was. But I literally don't want to stop and lose the momentum because I know the second time will be way easier based on the lessons I learned in the process.

Nicole (17:40):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was equally as crazy. I wrote my first book within a year. I wrote my second book within the next year. I wrote my third book and then within the next year I literally started my next one. And yeah, so it was four books for maybe five years. I, I didn't take a break during, and then when I took a break, I went, I'm going to just take a break for a while, but, and now I'm going, I have, I don't know, probably book five and six, like halfway written. And, but I last momentum on it and you know, and I, I think it becomes a little bit more challenging after you've written a couple or one and you go, okay, how can I challenge myself to do the next greatest thing? And, you know, cause it's an achievement to write a book, but you know, to write the next one, you have to think, Oh, do I have to get a little more creative or a little more strategic?

Nicole (18:33):

Or, you know, how do I want to position this? And you know, in my books are all over the board and I know people have like topics like you with your sales and, and other things that, you know, it's like, it's a clear focus and mine it's, it's all over the place. So but I finally said, you know, I'm going to write a book about how to write a book because that's what I do. And why have I not written a book about writing a book, which is crazy and people say, what have you written about? Or what's your book about, Oh, it's a book about writing a book.

Jason (19:05):

Yeah. Yeah. But you know, it's okay.

Nicole (19:09):

So anyways, tell us about how we can find you if you're doing any events where people can jump in. I know you've got your podcast, but I think you said you're taking a break from that for a little bit. How can, how can people find you and work with you?

Jason (19:26):

The best simplest way is if they go to Jason it's currently set up as a hub for everything that I have going on. So whether it's the book, which there's a link on there, or it's the podcast or it's my consulting if there's any events that I'm doing, you know, virtual, obviously in this day and age I can find it all on there. So Jason is the absolute easiest place.

Nicole (19:52):

Awesome. Awesome. Any last words of parting advice you'd like to share?

Jason (19:58):

You know, I think the biggest thing is know why you want to do something. I mean, if we're talking about this book journey, he's like, why do you want to do it? What is the goal? What is it that you want to do? And then do it right? There's a lot of people who ready, you know, instead of ready fire aim, they ready? Ready? Ready, ready, ready, ready? Ready? Right. Never ready. Aim fire. Sorry. you know, are they ready? Aim, ready, aim, ready, aim, aim, aim. And they just don't do it. At some point you just gotta do it and not worry about the negative voices. Cause they'll still be there. My book just came out and it's still there. It's still there every single day. Like who am I to write a book as I'm sitting here with it on my desk. And so just do it. You just gotta, you just gotta do it and you just gotta know that if you have something inside that's valuable to others, then just do it.

Nicole (20:44):

Yes, absolutely. I know. Occasionally I have to open own book and say, Oh, you know, that's really not a bad book.

Jason (20:50):

Yeah. I do that too. I look at it. I go, wow. Okay. All right. I guess I could do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Nicole (20:57):

Well, Jason, it has been a pleasure having you on the show and I thank you so much for being here and all right guys, I will place a link in the transcript of the show over on my blog and a link to Jason's website. So you can look him up. And I hope that as I share new authors with you, that not only do you connect with them, but it also gives you the courage to step forward and get your book done. And we all have a message to share. And I'd love to be your book publishing or I'd love to be on your book publishing team to help you make your book dreams a reality. So again, Jason, thank you so much for being here.

Jason (21:41):

Thanks Nicole, for having me.

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